Limited capability for work questionnaire

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Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby ranald » 09 Feb 2012, 23:20

I am trying to remain calm, but i am failing miserably. Today was the day Atos came slithering through my letterbox!

I wasn't looking for trouble this morning, i casually opened the two letters i found on the floor. One a credit card bill, the other an ESA50! Has it been two years already? So it would seem.

Filling in a form is not a big deal, the ESA50 is only twenty pages, not the monster i filled in for my initial claim. I am just in dread of being summoned for another WCA by Atos, i scaped the required fifteen points last time, the descriptors have been tightened further since then.

My neighbour, who has arthritis and Psoriasis, has already failed his WCA, and is now signing on the dole in receipt of JSA. He simply couldn't face the thought of another appeal, he is currently seeing a jobcentre DEA and Remploy, an admission that he has a disability, just not enough to claim to have "Limited capability to work". I don't quite understand the logic, unless the logic is simply to save a few quid on his claim. Surely not... ;)

Losing ESA isn't the end of the world of course, i will still have my DLA and Severe disability premium. The real loss is yet to come when DLA is replaced by PIP, then no PIP will mean no Severe disability premium. A loss of about three quarters of my income.
Common sense is not so common.

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Re: Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby taungfox » 09 Feb 2012, 23:55

ranald wrote:I am trying to remain calm, but i am failing miserably. Today was the day Atos came......

'..when DLA is replaced by PIP, then no PIP will mean no Severe disability premium. A loss of about three quarters of my income.



Wow, There is suddenly a flood of these re-assessments.

Stress and hassle all round for people we know are completely entitled to the benfits they
receive. So totally unecessary and unfair. Life was not exactly a party for us all before was it.

Ranald tells us his neighbour cannot bear another appeal. This whole process is demeaning and
totally stressful and just wears people down as the sad fact is that we are assumed to be guilty
of something and have to prove the status we always had. The new tests are draconian and they only get
away with it because the whole country is in fear for their futures.

Even in this stressful day Ranald hits on the most important point. The biggest battles will
probably be for our DLA. They are the most important to us and the gateway to so many
things.

Ranald has had a really bad week. We would like to show him our support.
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Re: Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby ranald » 10 Feb 2012, 11:57

Just noticed that we now only have 4, rather than 6 weeks to fill in and return the form. That will make it harder to gather supporting evidence.

I am luckily due my annual review on Monday 13th Feb. I will be able to ask the Neurologist to help me with regards to medical notes, assuming he can deliver within the timeframe!

I am booked to meet the Jobcentre DEA on Tuesday 14th Feb to see if they can help me back into work, i can't stand any more of this justifying my existence. I have also applied to work 30 hours pw in my local Willy Hill! I bet the 2 years+ employment gap will put them off.
Last edited by ranald on 10 Feb 2012, 12:02, edited 1 time in total.
Common sense is not so common.

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Re: Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby ranald » 10 Feb 2012, 12:00

Please remove, my message repeated for some reason. (I am not accepting responsibility) :oops:
Common sense is not so common.

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Re: Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby AMGmod » 10 Feb 2012, 13:06

Mildly confused here ... I thought you were receiving Incap. Were you getting ESA before but it is reviewed after so many years?

Just had my telephone call to say they are reassesing me, now waiting for the form to arrive.
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Re: Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby miracle77 » 10 Feb 2012, 21:46

HI Ranald

Good luck with your application. Get loads of advice and cover all bases before you send it back.

I dont like these changes to the benefit system as I am convinced its the wrong people who will suffer. No offence to your neighbour but being affected by muscle disease is worse than arthritis. The purse string holders should use medical evidence from specialists who treat you rather than outsiders or penpushers. These forms are sent to try and confuse you not surprised people give us or dont appeal.

My DLA is due for renewal in the Summer and I am dreading it already. I am currently struggling at work and want to cut my hours and may have the chance due to service redesign that is going on to cut costs but would only be able to do this if I have my DLA to fall back on to cover the pay cut.

Think we will be seeing a lot of similar posts over the coming months as others go through this unfortunate process.

Best wishes
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Re: Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby ranald » 10 Feb 2012, 22:49

I have been here before Miracle, i passed the WCA with 15 points 2 years ago. The problem is the tightened up descriptors.

If i was still in work i would be free from these checks, out of work i am totally dependant on my ESA and DLA. Not to mention Motability car and Severe Disability Premium.

It is quite astonishing that they have got away with changing the walking descriptor to "mobilise", it is naked opportunism and nothing more.
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Re: Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby Ameena » 11 Feb 2012, 14:52

All, please don't shoot me. I don't agree with the way that ESA and the WCA is being brought in, and I certainly do believe that if someone can't work then they should be supported by the state. After all, that's the civilised society we live in. BUT - I have pretty severe MD. I know I am lucky - I don't have pain or fatigue; I certainly don't consider myself ill and I am very lucky to have a good care package that lets me live me life as I want. But physically I can't walk, I can't transfer independently, I can't lift up my arms. In fact the only things I can move are my hands and my head. But I still work full time and when I have been out of work I claimed Job seekers allowance, as I have never felt that I was too sick to work. I do believe that it is not necessarily someone's impairment that means that they are unable to work, but the support structures around them - and I think that the assessment process should be looking at this holistically to put in place the housing, care, psychological support, transport and whatever else is needed to help people into work. I think that an assessment that comes from the perspective that people are able to work and then helps them to do that is the right way forward. Of course, in an economic situation where jobs are scarce there is a question of why go to a lot of effort to make this happen - that's what brought ICB in in the first place, isn't it? I just feel uncomfortable hearing about people who are scared of an assessment process that might say that they are able to work. Do we agree that it is the process that is flawed and not the principle?

And I will say, that there will come a time when I genuinely believe that working is too difficult for me, and I hope that the state will recognise that and support me. I also can see that there may be a time when I think I would like to enjoy not working while I still have the physical ability to do that - and that would be nice to have too. But I do worry that we could be seen to be fighting against something that I thought we actually wanted - not to be discriminated against in the world of work?

As I said, don't shoot me. I don't envy anyone having to go through this horrible process. I will be doing it with PIP I am sure, and I face it every time a social worker decides it's time to review my care package. It is horrible to feel that your future is out of your control - and we have enough of that already with MD, we don't need the state to mess with us too! I avoid contact with my local authority for just that reason as each time I speak to them I get severely depressed as they try to force me into another new situation.

I just think it would be good to have a debate about the principles of work, not work, ESA vs JSA etc.
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Re: Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby AMGmod » 11 Feb 2012, 17:11

The fatigue element was what decided the work thing for me .. well that and the GP.

Working full time, or part time with working tax credit, I would need such a support structure that just does not happen around here, it is not a feasibleoption.

Kudos to those who can make it work. I did my years, I over strained my muscles, I stressed and over tired myself endlessly.
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Re: Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby taungfox » 11 Feb 2012, 17:22

Ameena wrote:....I just feel uncomfortable hearing about people who are scared of an assessment process that might say that they are able to work. Do we agree that it is the process that is flawed and not the principle?

I hope that the state will recognise that and support me. But I do worry that we could be seen to be fighting against something that I thought we actually wanted - not to be discriminated against in the world of work?

As I said, don't shoot me. It is horrible to feel that your future is out of your control - .....I just think it would be good to have a debate about the principles of work, not work, ESA vs JSA etc.


Thank you for your post inviting debate. This is what we feel our forum is all about, long posts, confronting issues and
debating them freely. You raise many valid and interesting points.

I too hope that when the time comes that the state will recongnise all the issues correctly and support Ameena because that is the irght thing to happen. if any of us sound a little twisted, bitter and fearful it is simply because we do not
have that confidence. You are so right that processess are flawed if only we could have our priciples.

Experience is making us all the more fearful. Just this month our friend Ranald tried to get his same job back with
his old employer. The only difference was that now the employer knows he has incurable, progressive and degenerative
muscle disease. The progressive element means employers just do not give us a chance. I myself in 2001 got
a grant for £1550 under the "Access To Work" scheme and added £ 1500 of my own money. With £ 3000 worth of equipment
I applied for 462 jobs that year and got three of them. One lasted a week, one two hours and the other would not
let me start at all till I signed a letter of indemnity against any loss the firm sustained because of my medical
condition. At that stage I only had problems in hands, arms and shoulders. Now it has spread all over my chances
are so much worse. This is the problem, employers will not give us a chance.

The fact is currently that every disabled person is being retested and over 93 % of them are found "Fit For work",just
because they can lift a milk carton once or turn over a pound coin. Now they are competing against three million
able bodied unemployed, the vast majority will not find work. People like us with incurable, progressive, degenerative
conditions are the ones who have the very least hope.

The state taking away the support of hundreds of thousands of people who will never find employment is
cruel and immoral. I would love to debate it all and think we can get a fair deal and not be descriminated
against. We are not fighting against anything or antone, we are desperately trying to survive.

My mother only was able to remain at home because of the I.L.F.. The ILF along with most other
Government support has gone. Many thousands of disabled people will lose their homes because
of a problem they are not responsible for and are now being asked to pay for.

This is why we may at times appear a little jaundiced and tired and appear to have given up hope. There is
a juggernaut heading straight towards us, we cannot see how to avoid it.

Sorry to appear argumentative. You must have a superb employer and all the right levels of
hope and optimism that any of us should have and I hope you never lose it. Thank you for your
contribution.
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Re: Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby ranald » 11 Feb 2012, 23:42

I might feel different if i had a something to offer the employment market. I have only ever done manual, unskilled/semi-skilled work. Employers simply don't want to know. Am i to be condemned to £67.50 pw JSA for the rest of my life?

I have never claimed to be incapable of any work, i simply have a limited capability to work, hence i am in the WRAG of ESA. I have paid in for 20 years and now i need some support. None forthcoming btw, i have been "parked".

If the government raised the bar tenfold and nobody passed, would that mean we were all "swinging the lead"?
Common sense is not so common.

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Re: Limited capability for work questionnaire

Postby taungfox » 13 Feb 2012, 02:10

Ameena wrote: I do believe that it is not necessarily someone's impairment that means that they are unable to work, but the support structures around them - and I think that the assessment process should be looking at this holistically to put in place the housing, care, psychological support, transport and whatever else is needed to help people into work. I think that an assessment that comes from the perspective that people are able to work and then helps them to do that is the right way forward. .


This is extremely positve and forward thinking.

Let us all over a period of time be moving towards this goal.
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